Autism and Vaccines...

[Gala The Word Wench]

Just out...The Lancet in the UK, a respected medical source and publication has formally withdrawnthe research papers that it ran in back in 1998 that linked Autism to the MMR vaccine. The grounds were that the papers main author fudged some serious figures...and without the proper data, 10 of the papers 12 co-authors have disavowed the research, and all the conclusions.

I've been following this controversy since my daughter was young. I'm no doctor, but it just struck me as odd that the vaccine would suddenly cause something like autism...and while I am sure people still have reactions from time to time, I do wonder how this will be taken. The extreme "no shots ever" folks are sure to find this a conspiracy, but I am pleased that the Lancet was more interested in setting the record straight, then in protecting what proved to be "bad science"...Thoughts?

[Volkov]

Good on them for letting people know.

[Pirra]

I applaud anyone who can come out and say, "We were wrong and here's why"

It's a shame that some will have based their choice to not immunise their children on this study...but at least now they are setting the record straight.

[Gala The Word Wench]

The now discredited author is working on a major project in Texas---the same one trying to sell people on the idea of curing or reversing autism through diet.

As a person who has worked with and advocated for special needs kids, I have met a lot of parents who really struggled with their children's disorders...some to the point of mania. Now the same man who committed "bad science" over a decade ago, and used the same study to establish his credentials is offering people hope...and I wonder if people will listen to this retraction, or simply disregard it, because it doesn't "fit" their hopes.

Not long ago, one of our posters asked how we felt about the safety of vaccines for babies...this would go a long away to answer that one, I think. I do wonder how many kids have been exposed to MMR as result of the fear that study posed more than a decade ago.

[Twitch]

Very interesting. Goes to show how little we can know.

So seems it turns out that the fudged research was a conspiracy of sorts.

So how can we be certain that this recent disavowing of the research isn't a conspiracy?

EDIT: That wasn't expressed well. What I think I mean is, um, well, I know nothing about this and I'm just trying to ask some questions:

As far as I can tell from the information given, the research papers have been withdrawn because the "main author fudged some serious figures".

Just asking if there might be any reason for these 10 people to lie?

And what about the 11th co-author?

And, not wanting to sound like a "no shots ever" person or anything, but I would also be interested to know the extent to which this disavowing of this research is believed to discredit the anti-vaccination lobby.

[Gala The Word Wench]

I am pretty simplistic in my approach to conspiracies..but when considering who is telling the truth? I follow the money. The ten docs who changed their minds are not trying to sell the parents of autistic kids on a "miracle nutritional cure."
Dr Wakefield IS. Further...there were studies done by different countries challenging the 1998 study, and its results.

But if you need a conspiracy...maybe the doctor conspired to frighten parents from immunizing their children, so that developing nations would reduce their population? I still think he has a HUGE money motive to "protect" his study...and none since agreed with him.

[Volkov]

Just asking if there might be any reason for these 10 people to lie?

I think they were more mislead than they themselves lied. Co-authors are people who contributed a bit to the work, while the main author is usually the guy who did the major research.

[Gala The Word Wench]

I guess I have a personal feeling about this one.

I've worked with, and for special needs kids for nearly a decade. I know a few families dealing with profound autism, and when I first heard about the "autism cure" I was not only skeptical, but deeply concerned.

Its hard to imagine how you will react to something like that. I've met amazing parents, who did phenomenal things to help their children, well beyond the point that anyone expected. I've also known parents who regarded their child's needs as an embarassing. They spend time moving the children from one program to the next, hoping for a cure, or even a miracle. The problem is, their kids lose ground with every switch. At times, you have to look squarely at the situation, and simply deal with it.

When I found out that the same doctor who convinced people that vaccines were dangerous, is the same one who is now offering a "cure" I got seriously upset. The Lancet wasn't questioning this man's interpretation of the data...they publicly stated that he manipulated the figures. I've always thought that science required results that could be reproduced...and since this one can't be---not even close, I am sticking to "he lied".

[Twitch]

No, I don't need a conspiracy, particularly. I was just wondering.

Also wondering if things like diet, lifestyle etc. have any effect on autism.

Also wondering, just because this research has been discredited, does this necessarily mean that vaccines don't cause autism? Does this mean they don't cause other disorders? Does this mean vaccines are 'safe'?

Yes, these were the kind of things I was wondering. I was just suspicious that perhaps this was a ploy to undermine potential dangers associated with vaccines

Autism. I haven't studied it in depth but I wonder if autism doesn't work on a spectrum. I might be just a little bit autistic.

[Volkov]

Also wondering if things like diet, lifestyle etc. have any effect on autism.

Autism is mostly genetic in nature, so diet and lifestyle have little effect. The most effective approach is sustained, intensive special education and behavior therapy. In addition, there are drugs that have been shown to have some effect on autism, they are usually used when other methods have failed, since autistics can have atypical responses to medications, and none have been shown to relieve the primary symptoms.

Also wondering, just because this research has been discredited, does this necessarily mean that vaccines don't cause autism? Does this mean they don't cause other disorders? Does this mean vaccines are 'safe'?

In addition to this research being discredited, there have also been a multitude of studies that have found no link between autism and vaccination. Furthermore, the only thing in vaccines that could possibly have any effect on cognition, a compound of mercury called Thimerosal, has been removed from all vaccines. It was a preservative, and there is no evidence that the form of mercury in the compound had any effects on the brain, nor was the amount large enough to cause problems even if that form of mercury could affect the brain. It was removed because we are rich and there are other preservatives that work just as well, even if they are a tad more expensive. In short, the vaccines are as safe as we can make them. It is far more dangerous to risk getting the disease they protect against than to get the vaccine.

Yes, these were the kind of things I was wondering. I was just suspicious that perhaps this was a ploy to undermine potential dangers associated with vaccines

I'm not going to say there are no dangers associated with getting a vaccine. One out of several thousand people does have a bad reaction to the vaccine. But the chance that they can cause autism or any other disorder aside from an immediate bad reaction is very low. And like I said, it's a much higher risk to not get the vaccine, because the disease it protects against is FAR more likely to kill you. Measles, Mumps, and Rubella have a collective death rate of about 40 to 50 percent. The MMR vaccine has no death rate worth reporting. Maybe one out of 1000 will have a mild reaction to it, and 1 out of 100,000 will have a bad reaction to it.

Autism. I haven't studied it in depth but I wonder if autism doesn't work on a spectrum. I might be just a little bit autistic

It does work on a spectrum. That's about half the reason autism rates have risen so dramatically. People are being diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum, but are not fully autistic. The other two recognized disorders on the spectrum are Asperger syndrome and "Pervasive Developmental Disorder Not Otherwise Specified" or PDD-NOS.

[preston]

British & Japanese Data Show Vaccines Cause Autism

The number of Japanese children developing autism rose and fell in direct proportion to the number of children vaccinated each year.

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.c.../japvaxautism/

Data from the UK’s General Practice Research Database shows that with each major change in the UK childhood vaccination programme the rates of childhood autism have increased significantly.

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.c...britvaxautism/

~

[Volkov]

Both of those articles take graphs from papers that conclude there is no relationship and try to make the case that they do. This is clearly a website that is heavily biased towards the argument that vaccines are causing autism.

Originally Posted by from actual paper article talks about

“... the data provide evidence that no correlation exists between the prevalence of MMR vaccination and the rapid increase in the risk of autism over time. The explanation for the marked increase in risk of the diagnosis of autism in the past decade remains uncertain. ….. The increase ….. could be due to …… environmental factors not yet identified.”

Originally Posted by what the article says

The data shows something different and when correlated with major changes in the UK childhood vaccination programme shows what are the most likely “environmental factors not yet identified“. With each major change to the UK’s childhood vaccination programme cases of childhood autism increased substantially.

Neither of those graphs shows correlation between autism rates and MMR vaccinations, and if the authors of the papers tried to claim such, they were be making conclusions not based on the evidence. But the authors ARE NOT doing so. The only people making that case are the people who made that website. The graph from the Japanese paper has autism rates going up when vaccines are down, and rates going down when vaccinations go up. The graph in the other article shows MMR vaccination rates staying the same, while autism has an upward trend. There is no correlation present in either graph.